His blog is primarily about refuting Gnu Atheist claims about religious figures and ideas in history. And, on people such as Giordano Bruno, he has some good refutation. (And he's not alone in that.)
I won't link to him, though.
When he's wrong, he can sometimes be howlingly wrong. And a new update only underscores that.
And he was, a month ago, in trying to defend the papacy in general, and Pope Pius XII in particular, against charges of anti-Semitism.
One medieval papal bull he cited was honored as much in the post-Crusades-era breach as in the observance. And ...
He refused to even discuss the much later, 1860s-era, Papal States kidnapping of Edgardo Mortara. And, it's hugely relevant to refuting his claims.
So is Catholic hierarchy in the US ignoring physical anti-Semitism as late as World War II. (About halfway down the piece.)
He refused to discuss books by professional historians — non-Jewish as well as Jewish — that undermine his claims about Pius XII. And, I've read several such books.
One such book is "The Popes Against the Jews," just read and reviewed by me here. Its author, David Kertzer, previously wrote "The Kidnapping of Edgardo Mortara" and "The Pope and Mussolini," both of which I have read, and reviewed the latter here. (Pius XI comes off as better than Pius XII, but that's praising with faint damns one of the worst popes of the last 200 years or more. And don't forget that Pius XII, as Vatican Secretary of State, negotiated and signed the Reichskonkordat.) And Kertzer won a Pulizer for "The Pope and Mussolini," dude.
Then, he says, after I told him I hadn't listened to his podcast attached to the post — but without answering at all to Mortara, high-placed priests' post-WWII involvement in the "ratline" and more — his only answer is "go listen" to the podcast" followed by a stream of insults.
Update, Sept. 8, 2020: Kertzer has a new piece in The Atlantic, based on material now available from the Vatican archives, about Pius XII's silence about two Jewish survivors from the death camps forcibly baptized in France, as well as offering more information about Pius and the deportation of Rome's Jews. It further removes the mask from O'Neill's bullshit. On the two children, Pius himself, with the Curia, acted just like Pius IX on Mortara.
And, shock me, when I presented O'Neill with this on Twitter?
I used Price (who I know has scoffed at O'Neill; see below) as one example of several. I then responded:I'ver never had any direct contact or encounter with Robert Price. And I've never made the claim you attribute to me above about the Vatican and anti-Semitism. Perhaps you're confusing me with someone else. You certainly seem highly confused. And wrong.— Tim O'Neill (@TimONeill007) September 8, 2020
There we are. Same old person.Ahh, same History for Atheists Tim O'Neill. Surprised you aren't telling me to next "listen to my video" as you did before. I myself have argued, then walked away from that, over your attempts to defend Pius XII. No, not confused. But, again walking away (and updating blogs).— Again: Fuck Jesse Ventura & his lying cult 🚩🌻 (@AFCC_Esq) September 8, 2020
Anyway, read away. It's some very good stuff, and sad stuff, by Kertzer. It's also VERY in-depth. That Pius XII would pull this nearly 100 years after Mortara is disgusting.
Kertzer had an earlier piece in March, talking about the opening of the Vatican archives. Per his wondering there:
With the new piece, we need not wonder now. Pius XII's postwar actions are clearly those of an antisemite.
Public attention, naturally enough, is focused on the war years. But the postwar years are likely to provide their own surprises and insights. In Europe, this was a tense and eventful time.
And, I'm hoping he finds enough for a new book.
Back to the original. Well, Tim, I've got a response back for you.
Go fuck yourself. (Repeatedly, per the update.)
Beyond that, my most charitable explanation is that, even though he's an atheist himself, he's still some sort of "cultural Catholic." Or, more accurately, given his much higher regard for Rodney Stark than I have, perhaps he's a "Christianist" in the same vein as Samuel Huntington et al. In that case, his "History for Atheists" is, throughout, designed to be apologetics, not pedagogics. Light bulb just came on as part of the update. The fact that he attempt to gaslight people who have the goods on him make this clear. I also was just reminded of a piece I wrote last year about Catholic projectionism of some of their own cultural DNA onto Jews. Indeed, I mentioned him there, but forgot to link it.
If it's the same Tim O'Neill being referenced here on an online forum, he's also wrong about other issues related to the Holocaust. (O'Neill claimed no Nazi ever denied the Holocaust, only claimed they didn't know. He's refuted kind of well, but not as well as people there think. WARNING that I should have put up long ago. It's a "revisionist" site that I in no way agree with in general, and is full of conspiracy theorizing as part of that.)
Among other issues related to Nazi Germany he's wrong about? Hitler did not come to power via a "backroom deal." Instead, he was duly accepted as chancellor by President Hindenburg as the agreed-upon representative of a parliamentary coalition. That's the way chancellors, premiers and prime ministers are selected. And, his particular selection, as far as negotiations between coalition partners, was no more of a backroom deal than with any other parliamentary coalition in Germany or any other country.
(Oh, and others besides myself, like Robert Price and friends of his, know this dirty part of O'Neil. So do Quora commenters. Oh, geez, they kick him in the nuts over there. But, per somebody posting a link to this post on a June 2019 O'Neill butt-kissing of popes, he still can't let go, including letting go of the idea that his podcast is SO precious, and cannot be typed up and transcribed, so people MUST listen to it.)
Update, April 19, 2021: What's really behind this, IMO, is a "no true Scotsman" type argument. I say that as I am in the middle of a Twitter argument with Andrew Sullivan, over a claim that because he's a Catholic, he can't be a eugenicist. Not to mention, for both O'Neill and Sully, but the German Catholic Church, decades later, copped an official plea of guilty to complicity with Hitler.
Update, July 7, 2023: Forgot to add earlier that David Kertzer has another new book further kicking O'Neill in the nads.
Update, June 5, 2024: O'Neill likes to be hair-splitting, like in this piece claiming that the closure of the Platonic Academy by Justinian wasn't all that. First, I presume that the likes of Grayling, like me, knew this wasn't the Academy actually founded by Plato. Second, it doesn't matter that the second Academy was a fount of Neoplatonism that Plato might not recognize. What matters is its closure by Justinian was part of a larger assault against philosophy. It was part of Justinian's MO in general, as documented in a new biography. O'Neill eventually sort of gets there. Wiki gets a much shorter summation without O'Neill's axe-grinding.
Finally, as for his about? He's lying on the last bullet point, of course. There's various degrees of strawmanning otherwise. And, the biggest reason I know he's a fucking liar? Search his site for Kertzer; you won't find him. You also won't find him on O'Neill's other site.
Finally, even though he taught at an unaccredited theological school, calling Price "an amateur or hobbyist" is risible.
1 comment:
I'm not sure which came first on the chicken-and-egg of mutual loathing between O'Neill and the Gnus, or if, like my theories on J and E within the documentary hypothesis, there hasn't been a mutual feedback.
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